From Premillennialism to Amillennialism And Back: An Eschatological Change of Mind

Nearly two years ago I wrote a post entitled, “Amillennialism: Rethinking and Critiquing my Eschatology After Five Years.” In that post I analyzed an earlier blog post I wrote back in 2007 called, “How I Became An Amillennialist.” Two years ago I concluded that I was still an Amillennialist, but I realized that many of the arguments I previously found so convincing were not nearly as persuasive.

Now I’m ready to say it: I’m a Premillennialist.

whoa… that was weird. That was the first time I actually admitted it.

You see, I’m stubborn. I didn’t want to finally say it, but it’s true. And I feel like it’s been true for some time. I can’t actually call myself an Amillennialist anymore.

Why?

Because of Revelation 20. Period.

Now, I believe that the entire Bible is non-millennial in perspective. I disagree with those who try to make Paul a millenarian from 1 Cor 15, and I completely reject the idea that the millennium is taught in the OT (look again, the prophets are thinking of the new created order—the new heavens and the new earth). So I used to say that if I became a premillennialist I’d be the kind that said there was only one text that even addressed the topic. And here I am.

So what about the idea of placing too much weight on one passage? This is asked a lot in debates about eschatology. But it’s a silly question (and a silly rebuttal). There are two reasons why.

1) “too much weight”—this really only applies to certain kinds of premillennialists, specifically those who pull out their prophecy charts and dispensational timelines. Go read Revelation 20.1–10 again. There is no mention of Jerusalem, or Israel, or the Temple, or red heifers, or anything. Just some beheaded Christians coming to life and reigning with Christ. That’s it. My kind of premillennialism looks at the lack of detail in Revelation 20 regarding the millennium and the lack of emphasis from a broader biblical perspective on the millennium and says that the main telos of the Bible is not the millennium but the new heavens and the new earth. Nothing changes about my theology. Nothing. In fact, nothing even changes about the way I read Revelation. I still completely affirm that Revelation is a critique of first century Rome for the encouragement of suffering Christians. I also completely affirm that Revelation is full of recapitulations—I just have changed my opinion about whether Rev 20 constitutes another recapitulation.

2) “one passage”—Yea, if one passage teaches something that’s all it takes. Is that really so weird? If we didn’t have 1 Cor 11, we may assume that Pauline churches did not practice the Eucharist. One text disproves that idea. Likewise, evangelicals often speak of conversion as a “born again” experience, but this is a particularly Johannine concept, stemming primarily from John 3, and yet it is ubiquitous in evangelical rhetoric.

And the three most convincing things for me in this debate which caused me to change my mind are (1) the comparisons between 4 Ezra, 2 Baruch and Revelation 20 regarding temporary messianic kingdoms. When Rev 20 is compared with these it is hard not to see the common apocalyptic heritage. (2) The reference to “the rest of the dead” in Rev 20:5 was always hard to square in the Amillennial interpretation as well as (3) “they came to life” in reference to the souls of beheaded Christians. This coming to life is explicitly called a “resurrection” and a bodily resurrection seems most likely.

I should conclude by saying that I do not think Amillennialism is completely wrong. The emphases I’ve gathered as an Amillennialist—regarding the present reign of Christ, the “binding of Satan” for the advance of the Gospel, the unity of Jews and Gentiles in the people of God, the emphasis on the new heavens and the new earth—are important and valuable, and won’t simply go away.

So what are your thoughts on eschatology? Changed your mind recently?

John Anthony Dunne

You might also enjoy…

33 responses to “From Premillennialism to Amillennialism And Back: An Eschatological Change of Mind”

  1. Michael

    Welcome back!

    1. John Anthony Dunne

      You were here the whole time?!?!

  2. Owen Edwards

    I float around, really – I’m instinctively amillenial for the sorts of reasons you describe. At root, I’m just terribly sceptical of the sort of schema you mock in this post – the evidence for a detailed theology of the end times is scanty in the extreme.

    Having said that, of all things, it’s been soul sleep that’s been challenging me. Not that that would necessarily change my view on the millennium – but rather, dealing with different texts that discuss the state of those who have died before (Hebrews, 1 Thess, etc), I’m trying to work out the implications for the classic “Is Grandpa in Heaven?” question.

    1. John Anthony Dunne

      Hey Owen, two things:

      What am I mocking exactly? I certainly don’t intend to mock anyone or anyone’s eschatology.

      As for soul sleep—there are a couple issues here, such as the existence of an immaterial human substance in the first place. I would hold to an “intermediate state” of consciousness, but this is hardly worth emphasizing in eschatology—though some think this is all eschatology is!—because the biblical focus is restored creation.

      1. Owen Edwards

        “certain kinds of premillennialists, specifically those who pull out their prophecy charts and dispensational timelines” – don’t worry, I think it’s an extreme eschatology worthy of Pauline/Psalmic teasing

        Soul sleep only matters to me in pastoral terms, not because it constitutes a major pillar of the Biblical narrative. I’ve shied away from it previously for the reason you cite – I generally hold to body/soul unity or continuity as opposed to dualism, though the subject is complex Scripturally. However, yeah, some sort of “intermediate” step seems schematically plausible.

        1. John Anthony Dunne

          Well just to be clear that wasn’t my attempt to mock people who are dispensational. That was me distinguishing different types of premillennialists. Some divide up biblical history according to distinct dispensations and that’s not a mockery of them that’s just how they view the Bible.

          And yea the issue of the intermediate state and soul sleep is quite complicated (with scripture and science to consider), but the main focus is the resurrection so I tend not to give much thought to this question.

  3. Ruth

    Just to throw it out there, for all intents and purposes, I’m an Amillenialist. However, a question I wanted to ask is how important do you think our perspective (A-, Pre-, Post-) is on Revelation? Of course, I have my own view on this, but I was curious as to what yours is?

    1. John Anthony Dunne

      Hey Ruth, thanks for your comments. I genuinely think that an Amillennialist and a Premillennialist could write the exact same commentary on Revelation, barring the interpretation of Rev 20:1–10. There is no reason why things should be different elsewhere. Of course, there are plenty of Premillennialists who do interpret Revelation in all sorts of ways, but my brand of Premillennialism won’t “feel” different than Amillennialism in broad brush strokes (minus the millennial issue). What are your thoughts?

  4. i stand on the edge, I need good reasons not to become amil – i like many elements of it but the one thing that really holds me back is the spiritualized hermeneutic. There’s just too many questions there, but like you I appreciate elements of that postition but for now follow the great George Eldon Ladd in historic premillenialism. 🙂

    1. John Anthony Dunne

      Ladd’s a good guide. But I hesitate to equate Amillennialism with a “spiritual hermeneutic.” That’s a bad portrayal of the position (though you’re certainly not the only person to link the two). For instance, to link the land promise to Israel with the new earth is not a spiritualization b/c we’re still talking about land! And the same applies to the expansion of the temple from a localized building to the entire people of God filled with the Spirit. This is not a “spiritualization” but is entirely consistent with the “sense” of what the temple is—where God’s Spirit and presence is located—even though the “referent” has changed from a building to a people.

  5. ps., Craig Keener in his work on Revelation in the NIVAC set syas there’s really only two options – premil and the amil positions.

  6. Allen

    I’m glad you decided to hold those pretrib horses:) Hi, my name is Allen. I’m a recovering ex-dispensationalist for 9 months now. As I was teaching through Revelation I was consulting D.A. Carson’s 23 volume audio series at TGC (he is postrib by the way) also Robert L. Thomas, Grant Osborne, and Daniel Akin’s notes from his website. Around the 7th chapter my positioned slipped. Thomas had to do too many gymnastics to force dispensationalism into the text. (Same with Phillips, Wiersbe and Macarthur)

    Subsequently, I had to address the Sunday School class, and announce my change of positions and give my evidence, which was compelling to the class for them to follow me on this Exodus. However, Counterpoints book on Eschatology solidified my position. Douglas Moo (who is also premil/postrib)thoroughly explained his position.

    I have a question for you or anyone else. Irregardless of your position, were there any commentaries or authors in particular that assisted you in moving from one position to another?

    Allen

    1. John Anthony Dunne

      Hey Allen, glad to hear of your journey.

      What led me to Amillennialism was the work of Kim Riddlebarger primarily. His book is still a good one worth reading (though I don’t like the Daniel 9 chapter at all). But my favorite Amillennial book is by A. A. Hoekema, The Bible and the Future. I appreciate him so much for his emphasis on the continuity between this earth and the new earth. That is a position that I hold to dearly and one that I accepted largely because of his book. But I would like to point you to NT Wright’s “Surprised by Hope” as a similar sort of book. It’s excellent (though non-millennarian).

    2. Matthew Abate

      Hi Allen,

      You know, I haven’t read any of the standard commentaries on Revelation such as Beale, Mounce, R. Culver, R. Thomas, Allen Johnson, Dennis Johnson, etc… The ones that I have read are in the public domain such as John Gill’s Commentary on the Whole Bible; Jamieson, Brown, & Fausset; Matthew Henry’s Commentary.

      Both Jim Hamilton and Thomas Schreiner preached through the entire book of Revelation at their respective churches. Those two men hold to the historic premillennial view. This is my position at the moment.

      Happy studying and reading!

  7. JD,

    Thanks for this. It was helpful for me on the whole.

    Here’s a related thought: we were talking on my podcast a couple weeks ago about how en vogue it is to simply not have a perspective on this now–the whole “panmillennialist” thing. And I get it: there was a lot of eschatological silliness out there for awhile that made it easy to mock the theological process, chalk up the answer to mystery, and move on to other topics while tipping the hat to the “Jesus wins in the end” part.

    What I wonder is if the result of that has been a naive optimism, at least in the American church, that borders on a practical postmillennialism. It’s the mentality that says, “If we’d all just be more loving to those around us, non-believers would love us more and believe our message.” Mix that in with some songs about how Jesus makes everything new and works all things together for my good (but without any context that confesses a true New Creation eschatology and places the fulfillment of those truths firmly with the parousia), and you have a great recipe for a total lack of the Biblical concept of “hope.”

    Yes: people can still be “hopeful,” in so far as they are optimistic that God is somehow involved and things may get better. But what about when they don’t? I know so, so few Christians who really hope in the Biblical sense, i.e., look forward to the return of Christ as the time when Jesus will certainly and finally end suffering and bring about New Creation.

    By contrast, I bet a generation or two ago, when people were reading Clarence Larkin and listening to Chuck Smith, for all the silliness, I bet people had a better sense of, “No: things aren’t going to get better now. They’re going to get better later, and we must flee to Jesus as we look to that day and endure the difficulties of life in a fallen world afterwards.”

    There’s much more to say, and I’m not sure we want to return to the Larkin/Smith eschatological world. But the point is: I appreciate that you care about this. It’s something I’ve been realizing I need to care more about too, mostly because I want to have real hope.

    Thanks brother, and sorry for the rant.

    Andrew Faris
    God-Centered Youth Ministry

    1. John Anthony Dunne

      Hey Faris,

      Thanks for reading my post and thanks for the nice little “rant”.

      I agree. “Panmillennialism” undermines the ways in which eschatology is practical. This is something I want to write on further one day (Lord willing). It seems to me that our understanding of quite a lot of things in our daily lives and regular church habits is rooted in where we think things are ultimately headed. On the other hand, there is an unhealthy dogmatism that surrounds these conversations and perhaps that is what most “panmillennialists” fear. This is why I try to put my millennial perspective as a secondary issue within the bigger question of new creation (which is also a debated issue, but one that I think is so very crucial).

  8. Barbara Holck

    This sure is heady stuff. I am doing a ladies bible study on Revelation right now. Must admit I am of the Chuck Smith persuasion- rapture- trib -1,000 year rule- the the great white throne of judgment (I think that’s called premillenial and dispensationalist). What do you think of The Footsteps of the Messiah by A. Fruchtenbaum? I also like Stephen Armstrong’s Verse by Verse teachings/podcasts. BTW I see you have a book out on Esther. I’m hoping there is a kindle edition. I noted one of the reviews is from Cedarville. My twins (LMCA alumni) are student there.

    1. John Anthony Dunne

      Hey Mrs. Holck,

      Thanks for your comments and for reading my blog post. I hope you found it helpful. I grew up attending Calvary Chapel churches and so I’m very familiar with their views on the end times. I became an Amillennialist in college and only recently have begun to rethink my position. But again, the only thing I changed was my view on Revelation 20, which means that I do not hold to a “rapture” or make a distinction between different judgments (e.g. distinguishing between the Great White Throne or the Judgment Seat of Christ). I haven’t heard of those two people that you mentioned, but I should say that my view is what would be called “historic premillennialism” which is very different from the dispensational perspective, esp what has been popularized in America through the Left Behind series.

      And yes, my book on Esther is out! I was very grateful that Dr. Chris Miller from Cedarville wrote an endorsement. Did your sons take his OT survey course?

      1. Barbara Holck

        Yes they did and he covered Esther much like you apparently. All students are required to have a bible minor- one of the reasons we choose that school. To bad you can’t autograph a kindle edition. All the LMCA family is proud of you.

        1. John Anthony Dunne

          Yea I’d like to know more about how he handles the story. He liked my book so I assume our interpretations are quite similar. Did your sons enjoy his class? What did they think of his interpretation of Esther? Glad you’ll be purchasing the kindle edition! And thanks for the encouragement!

  9. Matthew Abate

    Like Michael said in a comment, welcome back to the fold John. I echo your sentiment toward Amillennialism. It’s never been a position that I’ve held, but I understand why many do. If there has been any change in my eschatology, it has been from dispensational premillennialism to historical premillennialism. This occurred about eighteen months ago.

    In fact, I’ll go on record as saying that my hermeneutic has shifted to a more covenantal approach. I don’t think that Revelation 20 is the only textual support for the millennium. It is the only text that mentions the thousand years, but it’s not the only text that speaks of a time period in between the present age and the eternal state.

    From my perspective, Zechariah 14 offers rock solid support for premillennialism. It’s a portion of scripture that Martin Luther couldn’t wrap his head around in his writings. Isaiah 65 is another good one, but I think this one isn’t as strong as Zechariah.

    There are lesser known scripture passages that seem to suggest a time period better than the present but previous to the eternal state. For example, Matt. 19:28 and Isaiah 24:19-23 are two that come to mind.

  10. Lee Jordan

    Hi John, just one thing to consider: you say you are a premillennialist in the mould of Ladd – but that is not classical premillennialism, like Charles Spurgeon for example. CS believed in a 1000 year reign of Christ from Jerusalem (the earthly city) with the Jewish Christians having a special place and he was post-trib. He was against dispensationialism as he saw a one people of God with no separation as in classical dispen’ and he did not see sacrifices in the Millennium. However, he did see the Jews having a special distinct (potentially political) status. He even allowed for a special temple but he differs again with Disp’ as he said it would be place for special worship (my view: maybe a vast Lord’s supper, thus making the Ezekiel vision spiritual as the prophet wrote it in a way he understood. At the end of the day the reality of the Memorial of the Lord’s Supper in its material form would be so precisely detailed(as Ezekiel recorded it) if one were to try and convey it in literal terms). So with the Spurgeon understanding, one gets the disp’ exciting literal vision but without the “stretching it” pre-trib Rapture and the (seemingly going back to the old sacrificial system when we have the Lord’s supper, though we must note; if the disp’ were completely correct in their interpretation then we must remember for the Redeemed, pre the millennium, we are reigning with Christ; the sacrificial reintroduction is only for the Jews and possibly gentile visitors on earth. I mention this because many amillennialists think an earthy millennium is crass, especially the sacrifices bit, as they reason slaughter has been substituted for the bread and wine – well that’s true but for the Redeemed before the Millennium the sacrificial system will not be for them, so I guess they needn’t worry. By the way there are amillennialists who believe in the restoration of a myriad of Jews before the return of Christ, and that there will be a Jewish nation ON THE ETERNAL EARTH and that Christ will reign from the earthly Jerusalem – I believe Dr Richard Pratt and Sheridan Poythress (who is an Earthy Amillennialist)hold very close to this understanding. I find myself as a premillennialist like Spurgeon and JC Ryle on some days and then an Earthy Amillenialist like Pratt and Poythress on others. Thanks for the blog. Happy Christmas. Lee

  11. John Carpenter

    The problem with basing pre-millenialism on Revelation 20 is that it is in a book that uses numbers symbolically.

    Besides, why would we even want a millennium?

  12. Thanks for your comments. I appreciate your willingness to question. I recently wrote down 13 major reasons why I abandoned the Premil doctrine. I feel that these would prevent me from ever returning.

    (1) Premil is totally preoccupied with, and dependent upon, Revelation 20. It interprets the rest of Scripture in the light of its opinion of one lone highly-debated chapter located in the most figurative and obscure book in the Bible. All end-time Scripture is viewed through the lens of Revelation 20. This is not a very wise way to establish any truth or doctrine.

    (2) Premil hangs its doctrine on a very precarious frayed thread: that of Revelation 20 following Revelation 19 chronologically in time. To hold this, it has to dismiss the different recaps (or different camera views pertaining to the intra-Advent period) that exist throughout the book of Revelation, divorce it from repeated Scripture on this matter and also explain away the clear and explicit climactic detail that pertains to Revelation 19. Premil is dependent upon the dubious premise that Revelation 20 is chronological to Revelation 19. That is it! Disprove that and Premil has nothing.

    (3) The detail Premil attributes to Revelation 20 compared to what the inspired text actually says is day and night. Revelation 20 does not remotely say what Premil attribute to it. Many extravagant characteristics, events and ideas are inserted into Revelation 20 that do not exist in the sacred text.

    (4) Premil’s interpretation of Revelation 20 contradicts numerous explicit climactic Scripture.

    (5) Premil is always explaining away the clear and explicit New Testament Scripture (the fuller revelation) by the shadow, type and vaguer Old Testament. We Christians have the benefit of the New Testament to explain what is difficult or obscure in the Old Testament. Christ has superseded the old covenant arrangement and now fulfils the new covenant arrangement as predicted. The New Testament is the fuller revelation. The interpretation placed on the Old Testament by Christ and the New Testament writers override all other opinions and interpretations of man.

    (6) Premil spiritualizes the literal passages and literalize the spiritual passages. Their hyper-literalistic approach to highly-figurative Revelation is a case-in-point.

    (7) Premil lacks corroboration for all its fundamental beliefs on Revelation 20. Whether you look at the binding of Satan, the release of Satan 1,000 years after the second coming, the restoration of animal sacrifices in an alleged future millennium, a thousand years of peace, perfection and prosperity, two different judgment days, two different resurrection days, the rebellion of the wicked at the end of the millennium, these enjoy no other support in Scripture. I struggle with this, because the only way to authenticate and understand any doctrine is interpret it with other Scripture.

    (8) Because this thousands years cannot be found anywhere else in Scripture apart from Revelation 20, Premil is forced to insert a thousand years in text after text where it doesn’t exist.

    (9) Premil is constantly exalting the power and influence of Satan and diluting the sovereign power and influence of Christ. That is nowhere more evident than in their constant rubbishing of Christ’s current kingship over His enemies at the right hand of majesty on high. Whether they mean to or not, Premils are always highlighting what Satan is doing in our day instead of what Christ is doing. Premil portrays a BIG devil and a small god, Amil has a small devil and a BIG God. In Premil, Satan seems sovereign in this age and God is curtailed. Premils are always lauding the ability of Satan since the cross. In Amil, Christ is sovereign and Satan is curtailed. Amils are always lauding the ability of Christ since the cross. As a consequence, Premil portrays an impotent beat-down New Testament Church, whereas Amil sees a victorious potent New Testament Church invading the nations with the good news of Christ and subjugating the powers of darkness as they do so. In Amil Christ reigns over all creation as God and His new creation as Saviour.

    (10) Another major error that Premil makes is that it constantly presents the Old Testament as if the new covenant has never arrived. It is as if Jesus Christ has not come and fulfilled the old imperfect typical arrangement and introduced the new perfect eternal arrangement. It is as if the Old Testament promises have not been interpreted by the New Testament writers. What Premils insist is literal, physical, visible and earthly, the New Testament writers interpret as figurative, spiritual, invisible and heavenly. What Premils locate in their supposed future millennium, the New Testament writers locate in our current intra-Advent period.

    (11) Because Premil lacks any corroboration in Scripture for a future 1,000 years’ age after the second coming, it invents 2 “last days” periods to allow Premil to fit. Mark 1 now, and Mark 2 after the second coming. Premils also invent 2 new heavens and new earths. Mark 1 they relate to their alleged future millennium and is sin-cursed and corrupt. Mark 2 is perfect and incorrupt and they equate it to 1,000 years+ after this.

    (12) Premillennialists cannot even agree on the timing of the arrival of the new heavens and the new earth. They are split on whether Revelation 21 comes chronologically after Revelation 20 and therefore after the millennium kingdom and Satan’s little season in time or whether it is synonymous to that much-debated chapter and that the new heavens and new earth appears at the start of the millennium. This exposes another major weakness in the Premillennial camp. If they cannot even agree on something so simple and elementary as this, how can we trust their chronological approach to Revelation 19 and Revelation 20?

    (13) Premil invents a 3rd group of humans that Scripture knows nothing of that are too wicked to be raptured at the second coming and too righteous to be destroyed. The reality is there are only two peoples in this world – the righteous and the unrighteous; those “in Adam” (the 1st birth) and those “in Christ” (2nd birth).

    (14) Premil has an unhealthy obsessive focus on natural Israel, wrongly believing her to be God’s chosen people today under the new covenant. As a result, they have a mistaken fixation with natural Jerusalem in the Middle East, as if it is the epicentre of God’s workings with mankind on this earth and the place of His unconditional favour. This is wrong! They ignore much Scripture that shows that the fig tree has been cut down, the kingdom of God has been removed from Israel. Ancient Jerusalem and the temple therein was merely an Old Testament imperfect shadow of the heavenly reality that was revealed at the first advent.

    (15) General unqualified phrases like “all,” “all nations,” “the living and the dead,” “every man,” “every one,” “men,” “man,” “all men every where,” “the flesh of all men both free and bond, both small and great,” “all that dwell upon the earth … whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world ,” “they that dwell on the earth … whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world,” “the world,” “the whole world” and “all the world,” that objective and impartial Bible students acknowledge embrace the whole human race are redefined and explained away to let Premil fit. This shows that the Premil boast that they are literalists is inaccurate.

    (16) Premil takes common linguistic terms that are easily understood by all unindoctrinated observers in any language to mean the opposite to what they actually say. For example, it does not believe that “first” means first and “last” means last. The English words “first” and “last” are taken from the Greek words protos and eschatos and are widely accepted by all unbiased theologians to denote exactly what they say. The word protos means first, as in the foremost in time, place, order or importance. The word eschatos on the other hand means end, last, farthest and final. It is explicitly clear from their usage, meaning and context in the New Testament that these words are the exact antithesis of each other.

    Premil does not believe that “the end” refers to the end. The New Testament word from which we get our phrase “the end” is the Greek word telos which refers to the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. the conclusion of an act or state. It is the termination point of a thing. When Scripture simply talks about “the beginning” without any other additional words or contextual reason to identify it with a specific event then most sane theologians agree it is talking about “the beginning” of creation. Whilst all sound theologians agree on this many are inconsistent when it comes to “the end.” The reason I believe is because it cuts across a lot of their end-time theology they have been taught. But I believe we should treat both sayings similarly. Unless Scripture specifically identifies “the end” with a particular event or matter like “the end of barley harvest” (Ruth 2:23) “the end of the sabbath” (Matt 28:1), “the end of the year” (2 Chron 24:23), “the end of the rod” (1 Sam 14:27), or “the end of the commandment” (1 Tim 1:5), etc, etc, then we should understand it as the end of the world (or the end of the age).

    1. Hi WP

      I have a bit of time in my hands so I thought I’d respond to your 17 arguments against premillennialism.

      1. Premillennialism is principally but not totally dependent on Rev 20. Isa 65 with its slightly less than an idyllic future and the Ezek 37-39 both support a millennial kingdom.

      2. It is true that links between the end times visions of Ch 19-21 point to a millennial kingdom. However, this is by no means the main argument from the passage in support of premillennialism. The main argument is probably the reference to resurrection which is had to see as other than physical. The length of the millennium, even if 1000 is symbolic ,is in conflict with ‘the time is near’ if an amillennial interpretation is taken. Satan’s binding is in conflict with his freedom in Rev 12 if an amillennial interpretation is applied.

      3. You are right that premillennialists draw from OT passages to fill out the events of the millennium. This is not wrong in itself.

      4.Premillennialism contradicts various climactic Scripture. This is I think by far the strongest argument for amillennialism and against premillennialism. In various NT Scriptures it seems the Second Coming is the ultimate event where sin, satan, rebellion and death are defeated. Premillennialism means that final defeat happens after the millennium. NT texts can be made to articulate but only with some difficulty.

      5. I don’t think this is true. I think you’re confusing dispensational premillennialism with historic premillennialism.

      6. A sweeping generalisation. I don’t think its true of historic dispensationalism.

      7. Again, an example of generalisations. Arguably a number of OT passages describe the millennium. Animal sacrifices belong to dispensationalism not historic premillennialism. The idea of a coming kingdom finds lots of support in both the OT and the NT. The question is not the incidence level of text but the interpretation. I certainly would want other authenticating Scriptures but they are not absolutely necessary. Clearly the amillennial interpretation of Rev 20 is fairly unique and a strange interpretation with no other corroborating Scriptures. Does that make it wrong?

      8. Another exaggeration. Again interpretation is necessary.

      9. WP this is a caricature and I don’t think it stands up. Try to compare the best of each position.

      10. Again you are confusing dispensational premillennialism and historic premillennialism. The blog post is about historic premillennialism.

      11. As above and a strange version at that.

      12. All mainstream premillennialism views the new heavens and new earth after the millennium. Mistaken argument.

      13.. Fair point. Where the people come from to populate the kingdom (who are not reigning) is a difficulty.

      14. Again you are confusing dispensationalism and premillennialism.

      15. Premillennialists are not literalists. This belongs more to dispensational premillennialists.

      16,17. Matters of interpretation but also apply mainly to dispensationalism. How do you interpret ‘the age to come?’ It. More naturally refers to a millennial age than eternity.

      1. Hi WP

        I have a bit of time in my hands so I thought I’d respond to your 17 arguments against premillennialism.

        1. Isa 65 actually refers to the new heavens and new earth. This occurs after the millennium (and Satan’s little seas). This is another example of how Premils butcher the Word of God to support their position. Premil has zero corroboration. They use Rev 20 as a dumping ground for other Scripture.

        Isaiah 65:17-21 declares, “For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.”

        The one thing we know for sure is that Scripture does not contradict itself in any way. The way some theologians explain this passage would lead you to believe that this passage is the one exception to this rule in Scripture. Of course, we know it isn’t (or can’t be). This much-debated passage before us must therefore beautifully correlates with other similar Scripture, which informs us that the coming of Christ is climactic and that the new earth is totally free of the curse. It is essential that we always interpret difficult passages like this with other clearer and simpler passages.

        2. Revelation is full of recaps. Revelation 20 is the last of 7 recaps pertaining to the intra-Advent period. Revelation 19 is the second coming. It is also the end of the world. The fact is: there are no wicked left to rule over. All flesh is destroyed in Revelation 19 (as in every other Old Testament and New Testament second coming passage). Revelation 20 takes us back to Christ’s victory over sin and death at the first resurrection and depicts the enlightenment of the Gentiles. It finishes with the general resurrection/judgment.

        Matthew 12:22-29, Mark 3:11, 23-27, Luke 10:18-19, Luke 11:20-22, John 12:31-33 Colossians 2:13-15, Hebrews 2:14-15, I John 3:8, Revelation 9:1-11, Revelation 12:7-9 and Revelation 20:2 prove Satan was cast out, bound, defeated, incapacitated, divested of power, disarmed, brought to naught, undone, stripped and spiritually imprisoned through Christ’s sinless life, atoning death and triumphant resurrection. Colossians 2:15 tells us: “having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.” Satan has not been rendered immobile or inoperative but is limited in his power, kingship and influence by being defeated on the cross. He is like a dog on a chain. He is shackled.

        3. You never addressed my argument here. The detail Premil attributes to Revelation 20 compared to what the inspired text actually says is day and night. Revelation 20 does not remotely say what Premil attribute to it. Many extravagant characteristics, events and ideas are inserted into Revelation 20 that do not exist in the sacred text.

        For example:

        • For years, it has been the Premil mantra that Jesus will be ruling in majesty and glory with a rod of iron for 1000 years on planet earth after the second coming. But this can be found nowhere in Revelation 20 or any other passage in Scripture?
        • Premillennialists argue that salvation will continue on after the second coming. But where does it say that? The second coming brings a close to the day of salvation. Scripture makes clear: now is the day of salvation. It also shows the completion of the great commission ushers in the end of the world (Matthew 28:19-20). Scriptures tells us that “the longsuffering of our Lord” that marks the period before Jesus comes as a thief in the night “is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15). There is no more salvation after that.
        • They argue that the old covenant arrangement will be fully restarted in a future millennium, even though Revelation 20 makes no mention of such teaching.
        • Premillennialists speak about the restoration of an elevated position for ethnic Israel on their future millennial earth. But a careful study of Revelation 20 teaches no such thing.
        • They insist that glorified saints and mortal sinners will interact in a future millennium, even though Revelation 20 makes no mention of such a belief.
        • They present their future millennium to be perfect pristine paradise of peace and harmony when in fact it ends up the biggest religious bust in history, as billions of wicked as the sand of the sea overrun the Premil millennium. Their age is just ‘more of the same’. There is more sin and sinners, more death and disease, more war and terror, more of the devil and his demons. The idyllic setting of the lamb enjoying sweet communion with the wolf, the bullock eating straw with the lion, the little kid-goat lying peaceably beside the leopard, the cow and the bear grazing happily together is quickly broken as the slaughter truck roar up from the temple. The Zadok priests quickly jump out and drag the unsuspecting animals aboard who had been lulled into a false-sense of security by Christ’s rod of iron rule. As the truck speeds off the millennial peace and harmony is broken forever by the bloody intent of the Zadok priests. When they arrive in Jerusalem, they pointlessly slit the throats of the lambs, goats and bullocks because they are somehow needed as sin offerings, even though Jesus had made the final sacrifice for sin thousands of years previous.
        • If there are mortal saints that surrender their lives to Christ in some supposed future millennium, and if the earth does indeed flee away after Satan’s little season as Revelation 20 states, then there must be (of necessity) another rapture and glorification in order to rescue them from the regeneration or replacement of this current earth. Of course, no Premil will acknowledge this. This is what error produces!

        4. I agree!

        The second coming brings a close to the day of salvation. Repeated Scripture shows that now is the only day of salvation. After showing us the destruction of this earth, the works that are in it, the heavens, the elements when Jesus comes, and after describing the longsuffering of God in the days of Noah before the destruction of all the wicked, Peter responds to the mockers scoffing at the apparent delay in Christ’s return: “the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15). See also Romans 2:4. He was reaffirming that salvation is limited to this side of the second coming. A sign of the end is that the Gospel must “be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come” (Matthew 24:14). The second coming brings the curtain down on the great commission. Once the ark door closes it is too late (Matthew 25:10-13, 28:19-20 and Act 3:19-21). At the end of this age (or literally, the consummation of the age), the time of God’s grace will finally be complete.

        The age to come has no room for “mortals” (Luke 20:34-36, Romans 8:19-23, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 and Revelation 21-22) or the unregenerate (Psalm 25:12-13, 37:9-11, 22, 28-36, 34, Proverbs 2:21-22, 10:30, Luke 17:26-30, 1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Corinthians 15:24, I Thessalonians 5:2-3, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10). One must be qualified to inherit the new earth. They must be worthy to enter that age (Luke 20:35). Only glorified saints can inherit the glorified earth. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

        Matthew 13:29, 49, 28:20, John 6:39-44, 54, John 11:21-27, John 12:48, Ephesians 1:10 and Revelation 10:5-7 would seem to suggest that time reaches its fullness at the climactic return of Christ. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

        Luke 20:34-36, Acts 3:19-21, Romans 8:19-23, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 ,1 Peter 1:3-5 and Revelation 21:1-5 all show that the end of the bondage of corruption occurs when Jesus comes. A far more glorious age will then be ushered in. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

        1 Corinthians 13:12, Ephesians 4:13 and Revelation 10:5-7 show that the curtain coming down on the mystery of God, thus confirming we are at the end of time and entering into eternity when all will finally be revealed. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

        Repeated Scripture locates the replacement of the current heavens and earth with the new heavens and earth and incorruption at the second coming. Job 14:12-14, Isaiah 13:9-11, Isaiah 34:1-4, 8, Isaiah 65:17-21, Isaiah 66:22-24, Joel 2:3, Joel 2:10-11, Malachi 4:1-3, Matthew 24:29-30, Matthew 24:35-44, Mark 13:24-26, Luke 21:25-27, Romans 8:18-23, 1 Corinthians 15:23-24, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-13, Hebrews 1:10-12, Revelation 6:13-17, Revelation 16:15-20, Revelation 19:11-16 and Revelation 20:11-15 shows us that this occurs at the second coming. This is indeed the end of time, the end of corruption, the end of the wicked, the end of sin, the end of death, the end for the devil. It is the beginning of eternity. It is the beginning of perfection. It is the beginning of incorruption. It is the beginning of a new arrangement.

        It seems like whatever angle you examine the second coming it appears to be climactic, final and glorious.

        1. John Thomson

          Hi WP

          I think AM has a great deal in its favour. In particular it deals well with most NT texts. PM’s are left with the problem of a) salvation in the millennium when the NT teaches there is no second chance b) descriptions of the millennium seem regressive. They have a Jew gentile divide with Jewish privilege and may include reinstituted OC icons. C) The millennium is an anticlimax. Human sin and death still exist. D) the second coming seems climactic

          On the other hand AM faces the stubborn reality of Rev 20. I have read the AM interpretations and remain for the time being unconvinced. The resurrection is a problem for me. Satan’s incarceration seems much more absolute than presently. E
          I could dismiss Rev 20 were it not for some OT texts. I understand the Rev 65 passage may be a description of the eternal state. It parallels Rev 21. the images that we must say declare eternal life are surely weak. They seem to imply the presence of death, albeit weakened.

          For me, Zech 12-14 is a very difficult passage for AM. Ezek 38,39 also jar.

          One part of me agrees we must make the apparently maverick texts be controlled by the clear texts. I’d ad we must control the OT texts by the NT. Nevertheless when texts that don’t quite fit the narrative arise we are right to ask if we need to adjust the narrative.

          I agree that ‘age to come’ seems to be limited to the redeemed in the NT.

          I shall check out your texts.

  13. I had a typo on last post, I do not seem to have the ability to edit. I should have wrote: “17 major reasons.”

  14. For those who are amillennialists and who also believe in soul-sleep, how do they interpret Rev. 20:4-6?

    1. John Anthony Dunne

      Hey Mark, thanks for your great question. Basically, I think most people who hold to those views would view the first resurrection as symbolic of regeneration rather than conscious life in heaven during the intermediate state. I imagine there’s some added nuance to this, and possibly some other perspectives too, but I suspect that would be the dominant reading. Again, thanks for the question!

  15. Chetan

    Hi, I too have gone through the journey from dispentational-premill, and then to historic-premill and to classical-amill, and then now reverted back to historic-premill view, it’s very hard but I also only reverted just because of only the revelation 20 passage and also that it’s not recapitualted passage. As for the intermediate state of our spirit which contains our soul( which according to me is our emotions, memories, experiences that make us unique and distinct and living beings while in the body) simply can’t exist having the same consciousness as in the body after the separation from the body at our deaths, but our spirit which is having our soul will be in the hand of God and which God will reunite with our new resurrected or changed bodies at his coming to mid air as the Ressurection of life mentioned before the millennium and will rule and reign the mortal survivors on earth for a 1000 years with him and then after which satan will be released to have power to convince these mortals to a war against Jesus and Jerusalem so fire comes from the heaven and burns the whole earth as mentioned by Peter which makes the earth as a lake of fire expanded than the one in which the Antichrist and the false prophet will be thrown into at the start of the millennium so that the now expanded lake of fire on the whole earth will serve as the final punishment of those who will be raised for the judgement be thrown into it and thereby die a second time literally only now that their whole bodies and souls are destroyed and that there is no hope of them getting life eternity again because it’s a eternal punishment unrecoverable. So historic-premill, soul sleep, and annihilation are my convictions on the plain exegesis of the eschatological texts in the whole bible. Life is contrasted with death, so second death is not livin’ forever without dying in the lake of fire but only dying literally a second time without any hope of getting life eternal.

  16. Wil Welch

    I deeply resonate with this post (even though it’s ten years old). As a confessional Lutheran (who holds a quia subscription to the 1580 Book of Concord), I am a bit of an oddball in seeing Revelation 20 as happening on the Last Day, when Jesus comes back. I am in good company among confessional Lutherans historically (Peter Fjellstedt, George Henry Gerberding, Michael Reu, Edmund Schlink, Francis Monseth, and the recently sainted John Warwick Montgomery). These men believed that a mild form of historic premillennialism (also the views of thematic millennialism and new creation millennialism) in no way violates Augsburg Confession Article 17.

    The Confession rightly condemns “certain Jewish opinions,” held by Anabaptist groups during the Reformation, that a number of the “pious” will possess a secular/worldly kingdom BEFORE the resurrection of the dead. This condemned teaching also contradicts Revelation 19-20. The millennial reign of Rev 20:4-6 is after the resurrection of the justified, during the single but ordered act of the general resurrection on the Last Day, and is not worldly. Today, these “Jewish opinions” are seen in the theonomic postmillennialism and in dispensationalism.

    The “first resurrection” of Rev 20:4-6, textually, must be a bodily one. Rev 2:8 uses “came to life” about Christ’s resurrection and Rev 20:5 uses it to describe the resurrection of the wicked. The best way to understand “first resurrection” is that describes the resurrection of all Christians on the Last Day (Luke 14:14, 20:35, 1 Cor 15:23, Phil 3:11, 1 Thess 4:16). The “1,000 years” are probably not literal, as numbers in the Apocalypse rarely are. Acts 3:21 speaks of “times” of restoration after Christ comes again. So it seems that there is an order of events to take place as the earth is fully renewed by the returning Christ and His people. Of course, we don’t know how all these events will take place. We just know that they will. However, all of these Last Day events are supernatural and heavenly. Rev 20 itself gives no indications of worldly glory for the saints. How could there be? Every last believer in Jesus has been resurrected to eternal life in the “first resurrection.” The glorified believers will reign with Christ on the Last Day in judgment (Dan 7:18,22,27, 1 Cor 6:2, Rev 2:26-27) as he destroys worldly rule and power, consigns the damned to enteral punishment, and consummates his eternal kingdom in the new creation. Neither does Rev 20 talk about continued death, procreation, or continued evangelism. All of those things cease with Christ’s return in glory. Every form of “chiliasm” which has them to continuing after He returns is mistaken. Least of all does Rev 20 speak of a return to the Mosaic ceremonial law in an earthly Jerusalem. That is a horrible blasphemy against the new covenant! Indeed, Rev 20 never even mentions the location of this millennial reign, although it probably encompasses both earth and heaven. One helpful way to see the Gog and Magog armies in 20:7-10 is that they are the resurrected wicked (“the rest of the dead” in Rev 20:5), which explains how they are “as the sands of the sea.” John Gill argued for this centuries ago. Eckhard Schnabel, Thomas Schreiner, and Michael Schultz have defended this view recently. This helps safeguard the fact that the only people in the millennium are glorified saints and that their reign is not “worldly.” Satan is bound and released to show that he, as God’s devil after all, has zero authority over glorified believers, whose reign continues forever and ever as the New Jerusalem descends to a perfectly renewed earth. This millennial reign of believers with Christ is after their resurrection, during the ordered event of the resurrection of all the dead, and it is not worldly or secular because the saints are all glorified. Rev 20:4-6 is just a stepping stone to Rev 21:1-22:5. Even so, come Lord Jesus.

  17. Tom Peters
    Tom Peters

    I don’t wish opine on a subject I know little about. Therefore, I would ask a simple question. If one accepts the view that 2 Cor. 5:10 refers to a bodily judgment of believers in this life followed by an immediate bodily resurrection at death, with non-believers awaiting judgment before the Great White Throne as the forum they have effectively chosen by rejecting Christ and any need for a savior and instead relying on their own merits to decide their eternal destiny, what, if any, impact would all that have on this ongoing debate? Also, on the question of the so-called Rapture, would these views impact that discussion in any way? You can find the full exegetical article supporting this revised reading of 2 Cor. 5:10, along with a separate introduction and postscript (which are much shorter and less technical), along with reader comments, under the Biblical Studies link of this blog. You might also check out the review of Dr. Wright’s Book, Surprised by Hope; the review of the book edited by Alan Stanley, The Role of Works at the Final Judgment; reflections on Patrick Schreiner’s new book on the Transfiguration; reflections on Dr. Jeannine Brown’s new book, Embedded Genres in the New Testament; and finally, a discussion of Near-Death Experiences and their relationship to the Final Judgment. All these articles, along with the associated reader comments, can also be found under the Biblical Studies link of this blog. Since all these notes and articles are relatively recent, they can be easily located by quickly scrolling down the opening screen after clicking on the Biblical Studies link.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *