Church Security Teams? Verdict: Unbiblical

Before my title causes you to misunderstand my position, I want to say a few things. I like guns. I really do. It is part of the reason that I have a concealed weapons permit. More then that, I believe in self-defense. If someone enters my home to harm either myself or my soon to be wife, I will dispense the appropriate deadly force. Yet my belief in the use of force in one area of life does not mean I believe force is a viable option in another realm of my life. The question of deadly force seems to have always been an all-or-none platitude. You are either in favor of force in all situations or against it. However, I believe the two-kingdom theological position allows for a mixed ruling: The use of deadly force in the civil kingdom but the rejection of it in the spiritual kingdom.

Some, especially those who live in the city, will find this article most peculiar. It has been my experience that people in the city either don’t understand guns or the people who would even suggest using them, under any circumstance, against another human being. As such this article is primarily written to those who find themselves in more country churches. Often times these churches sincerely wrestle through the issue of whether to have a church “security team.” This team is often composed of a handful of armed men throughout the congregation. In a situation such as that which New Life Church found itself in during 2007, they would be called upon to kill a gunman who had entered the church.

When the dust settles, I believe the easiest way to arrive at a sound biblical answer on the question of security teams is to embrace the two-kingdoms doctrine, which adequately provides a framework for the use of deadly force in the civil kingdom but not in the spiritual kingdom. Or to put it another way, a framework which allows for the use of deadly force in the home but not in the church.

The Relevant Biblical Data

The biblical points that allow for some use of physical force in the civil kingdom derive their mandate from Paul’s famous discourse about civil government (Romans 13:1-7). But it also draws validation from the finer points of natural law and the nature of the civil kingdom. These points of natural law which point to the legitimacy of deadly physical force are aptly explained in early Reformed resistance writings (see Marian exile John Knox and French Huguenot Theodore Beza) and I need not elaborate here for our focus today is on deadly force in the church.

Three passages seem especially relevant for our current question. The first is Matthew 5:38-39. Here we read in part, “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.”

Jesus is laying out something important about Christian ethics. But how is this passage to be understood in light of other texts such as Romans 13:1-7? In a masterful piece entitled, Bearing Sword in the State, Turning Cheek in the Church: A Reformed Two-Kingdoms Interpretation of Matthew 5:38–42, David Vandrunen argues that these verses must be understood against the preceding portions of the Matthean corpus that emphasize “the kingdom of heaven” (Mat. 3:2; 4:17; 5:3; 5:10, 19-20). This is a message that is directed to those who are participants in the kingdom of heaven. Indeed the ethics provided in the Sermon on the Mount are of a heavenly nature. They are not of this age.[1] In Matthew’s gospel, while the ethics are of a heavenly nature, they are to be obeyed now by the unique spiritual body that is the inbreaking of God’s kingdom. And thus the call of Jesus has direct implication about how the church is to handle violence that comes toward it. Jesus’ answer is to turn the other cheek, “Do not resist.”

In organizing this text and others with the two-kingdom principle, we can see that this command applies to how we handle ourselves in church or the spiritual sphere while other texts that allow for the use of force can still find legitimacy and valuable usage outside of the church in the civil sphere.

Of additional relevance is a text from Isaiah in which we find that our savior was, “…oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth” (Isaiah 53:7).  This language is also echoed in Peter’s similar statements (1 Peter 2:22-23). Jesus himself lives out the very calling that he demands of his disciples. To pick up our cross and follow him means that we reject our right to self-defense when we are being persecuted in the spiritual kingdom.

Also deserving mention here is Jesus’ statements in John 18:36 in which he tells Pilate, “If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting…” Jesus again reiterates two crucial features to aid the two-kingdom understanding of this matter. He states that his kingdom is not of this world! If his kingdom were of this world then his servants would bear the sword. But his kingdom is heavenly and thus his disciples live by kingdom ethics, like those described in the Sermon on the Mount. Again, this does not mean that the civil kingdom does not have a violent component to it. He is here talking about his kingdom, not the kingdoms of the earth.

Application 

If I have not made it abundantly clear already, my intent in writing is to show that church security teams are ultimately unbiblical, as they have to circumvent numerous texts from Scripture, which show that Jesus’ followers are not to resist those who persecute them. Additionally, I would suggest that all men or women with a concealed weapons permit consider leaving their guns at home on Sunday morning lest they be tempted to go against Jesus’ commands in the heat of the moment.

This paradigm also reaches beyond church security teams. It can apply to the home. If someone were to come after me in my house because of my Christian faith, I would summarily, be called to non-resistance. However if someone were to come after me as a burglar or a murderer, I would be biblically allowed to resist.

While recognizing that there may be both grey areas and some practical difficulties in applying this two-kingdom’s principle, it is ultimately a surer path to biblical fidelity.


[1] I am heavily indebted to David VanDrunen for many insights discussed here on Matthew 5:38-42.

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43 responses to “Church Security Teams? Verdict: Unbiblical”

  1. Joe

    Someone tried to kill Mark Driscoll. Rushed at the stage with a knife. Just saying. They don’t have guns, just big dudes at the front like bouncers.

  2. Miss you man. I am proud of you for being faithful to our God and King! Ryan

    1. Ryan M

      Thanks man! I miss you brother! You had a huge impact on my life growing up! We should catch up soon! Hope the pastoral position is treating you well.

  3. While this is very interesting, I believe the verdict that the use of a Security Team is Un-Biblical is wrong, just as is the idea that the Team must be armed. I believe the Bible is very clear that the early Christians had some who were the watchmen and armor bearers and others who were the workers on the wall but also had their swords nearby. The first priority should be having a Church Security Plan, Program and Teams to carry out the plan and program.

    And as to the right or belief that you can and should provide self defense for yourself and those around you at home but not in church, wrong again. I can think of no message that tells you not to protect your life or the life of another IF you can, and it’s not the same as “turning the other cheek”.

    There is a real threat to churches, ministers and those attending, as we see evidence of almost every day in the News, here at home and around the world. A lot of this murder and injury, arson, theft, vandalism and robbery could and might be prevented IF a church had a plan & people to carry out the plan.

    The question of armed vs. unarmed, who would be armed, what training & what rules for the use of deadly force vs. non or less lethal is not first issue. In fact, some problems can be detected & deterred by a visible security team. They can communicate a warning to those inside and tools such as verbal judo, pepper or stun items can do a lot to deter a threat without shooting someone.

    Let’s work on getting churches protected with a Plan & a Security Team first.

    1. Ryan M

      Hey Leo,

      Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your gracious reply despite the disagreement. I would be curious as to how you incorporate the verses I have mentioned above in your concept of a church security team. I mean an explicit explanation of how those verses formulate your understanding of a church security team and their responsibilities. I am not even opposed to some kind of team for medical or fire or anything like that. But when God’s people are being attacked, they are most certainly not sword wielders. Again, John 18, if Jesus’ kingdom were of this world, his people would have been fighting. That is explicit command from Jesus about the nature of his kingdom. There has been lots of disagreements with my position but very little said that actually attempts to account for the biblical texts.

      You mention the real threats to Christians today. But how is this any different than the situation that Jesus faced and yet there we see, that “when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly” (1 Peter 2:23)

      I appreciate some of the issues you have brought up regarding the nature of security teams. Surely there is a variety of positions about what a security team could/should do. Maybe they don’t use lethal force (still unacceptable in my opinion) and instead use some other deterrent such as stun items. While I still don’t agree with physical response, your response has shown a need for careful thinking and nuancing which I can always appreciate. : )

  4. John, I think I track with you untill you try and bifricate the “home you” and the “at church you”. I confess I have only ever lived in the city and consider myself something of a pacifist (generally). So while I agree with your biblical data regarding the use of weapons, and I can see that you’re trying to apply this to only one specific scenario (church security teams), your argument for weapons in the spiritual kingdom is much stronger than the civil — which it seems you take as a given than as something you’re holding to by means of Biblical data.

    Romans 13 sees the “swordbearer” as the government — which bears the sword to enforce laws. Obviously one reading of this seems to allow for Christian policemen and judges and all forms of enforcers of justice — but it seems a stretch to apply this to deadly force for a non-“swordbearer” or governmental agent. That is, Jesus’ statement to Pilate seems more universal: “if my kingdom were from this word… they would fight”, ergo because they are not, they should not.

    Great insight. Appreciate the application to the area of church security. I know tone can be tough to discern on this Internet, so I hope this is reading as genuine interest and not baiting or being arbitrarily argumentative.

    1. Ryan M

      Glen,

      Great reply. Especially on a heated issue. As you can see, some other posts have been less than gracious.

      My vision of home v. church is really grounded in two-kingdoms thinking. Not sure if you have had much chance to read in that area. I have been blogging on this issue for some time now. My first seven posts in this series establish what I believe to be the theological and exegetical grounds for the two-kingdom’s doctrine.

      Regarding non-sword bearers having weapons, I would derive my arguments largely from natural law. It would be too difficult in this brief reply to defend natural law reasoning but i think you can see traces of it in my earlier post. It’s a line of reasoning followed by a number of early reformers and I do find it to be valid. If you want a decent read on two-kingdoms history I suggest David VanDrunen Natural Law and Two Kingdoms. It has a chapter on Reformed resistance theory which helps draw out certain natural law arguments that would favor non-sword bearers having weapons and using them accordingly. Unfortunately, this post could not bear that defense given length constraints but I may consider it in the future.

      -Ryan

  5. Garrett

    Hey Ryan,
    Great post and I agree with your end conclusion about not having guns or security teams in churches. I was hoping you could expound on the differences between the “civil kingdom” and the “spiritual kingdom” because it’s hard for me to make a distinction between the two. For example, if we are to trust God when someone persecutes us in the church, shouldn’t we also trust God to be in control of a burglar entering our home, (whether he is doing so because of my faith or not)?

    1. I’m sorry I did not click on the Reply for my later comments and response to Garrett, which you will see below Glen’s last comment on his error in who posted.

    2. Ryan M

      Garrett,

      Great question on spiritual v. civil kingdom. I have actually been doing a series on this. You can read my old posts dating back to November. My first article was entitled “How Many Kingdoms?” It is somewhat of a primer on the two-kingdom issue. Most of the other articles also have “How Many Kingdoms” somewhere in the title.

      In short however:

      The two-kingdoms positions believes that God rules the ENTIRE world but he rules different spheres of the world in different ways. The civil kingdom was established in the Noahic covenant as God covenanted with mankind in general, not a specific religious group. This created a sphere of life in which man (whether believer or un-believer) had to work together for the common good of mankind in our temporal setting. The spiritual kingdom (established in the Abrahamic covenant) was a special covenant with God’s believing people which provided special directives for his people. He rules these kingdoms differently and they have different ends. He rules over the spiritual kingdom as redeemer and he rules over the civil kingdom as creator/providential sustainer. As such there are different codes of “revelation” over each sphere. Over the civil sphere, natural law is recognized as that which governs mans actions in this sphere. Over the spiritual sphere, it is the Holy Scriptures.

      Very short explanation of the position. The defense of it is contained in my earlier articles. If you are interested in the topic, I suggest picking up some stuff by David VanDrunen.

      Believe it or not, this is the historically orthodox protestant position. Forms of it were held by Luther, Calvin and their successors. It is really in the more modern evangelical world where Christianity has no appreciation for distinctions and everything has to be boiled down to a bumper sticker that this position has faded.

  6. Also Ryan, whoops. Caught this on John’s Facebook, thought he was the author.

  7. I found your article interesting, and it provides fodder for debate. However, it leaves me with many questions. If I understand you correctly, you believe one is mandated to determine why a person who is attempting to kill him is doing so? The nature of a violent attack is usually very dynamic and the killer often doesn’t reveal whether he hates my belief system or whether he has a blood lust to kill me. So your reasoning strikes me as somewhat naive.

    Recently, a woman seeking counseling at a church was killed. Her husband came to the church and shot her dead. As far as we know, she was killed due to marital strife, and not because of her Christian beliefs. If the counselor is armed, is he required to determine the killer’s intentions just because of his geographical location (i.e. being in church)?

    Further, it is my understanding those who believe and follow Christ are the church. So, your assertion of two spheres is puzzling to me.

    I would also ask whether God desires his followers to defend the innocent or allow them to be killed by evil men. Which is more evil? Stopping a deadly attack by deadly force and killing one bent on evil or allowing the many innocent to be murdered and slaughtered when one has the ability to stop it?

    The truth is many deadly force encounters are not stopped by an armed church security team, but rather by frightened people making a brave survival attempt and attacking the armed aggressor with empty hand techniques. By reacting to their natural fight or flight response and attacking a killer with their empty hands, would the author suggest they are sinning against God because they are not turning the other cheek and allowing him to kill them?

    1. Ryan M

      Glen,

      A very gracious response from someone who clearly disagrees with me. Very much appreciated brother. I can’t emphasize enough that I recognize you as a brother in Christ and all those who disagree with me. We may think the other is wrong but it is people like you who sharpen my thinking.

      A couple quick comments:

      I do agree with you that the nature of violent attacks is very dynamic. After all, that is what all my tactical training has taught me. That is why I left the door open to practical difficulties in my last sentence. Surely it is often hard to know why one is being attacked, especially in a society of religious freedom. This is less the case in a country openly hostile to the gospel where it is usually fairly clear. All in all, the overall makeup of civil society in America makes this difficult (but I most definitely prefer my freedoms, so I will take the difficulty : ). I recognize that you can’t sit down and have an interview with someone attacking you. Like I said, I have a concealed weapons permit. I am a bit surprised at how uncharitable some responses have been in suggesting that I believe something so naive and silly. But perhaps it is my fault for not explaining more in the article.

      On the two spheres issue… Like I have told others, you may want to consider going back and reading my entire series. Though it may bore you at times ; ). Yes, you are right Christians are always part of the church wherever they are as you have suggested. But we operate in two realms. The civil kingdom is where we interact with all men regardless of background but the church gathered is where we interact with those who have entered into this special covenant which makes them members of the spiritual kingdom. So yes, I am always united to Christ but I live and operate in different realms of his creation. Again, for the theological defense, check out some of the older posts.

      As to who God requires us to defend… I agree that we are to defend the innocent and the weak but when Christ’s followers are attacked for following him, it is a completely different ball game. And I hate to say it but church history is not on your side on this issue. Are you prepared to say that 2000 years of faithful saints were wrong and they should have been fighting rather than fleeing or dying? And what of the martyrs in Revelation 6? Doesn’t sound like they were wielding the sword.

      Finally, what do you say to the explicit biblical texts that I mentioned. I hear lots of arguing from the other side but very little bible or at least an attempt to explain the passages that I have referenced. Lots of things that sound biblical but nothing from the Word itself. I would be curious to hear how you incorporate these verse in your understanding.

      All in all great response brother. I look forward to further interaction.

      -Ryan

      1. Hi Ryan,
        Thanks for your response. One thing about the Christian community is there are nuanced millions of differing opinions on a continuum of even one verse, so there is always room for lively debate. However, debate has seemed to consistently solidify my position, so I don’t engage in it as much. In the interest of full disclosure, I run a variety of sites, and one of them happens to be about church security. I am not attempting to dissuade you, as I don’t think my abilities to do so are adequate.

        I have thought about your position and have come up with this:
        Regarding Scripture passages you have used in your article.
        Matthew 5:38-39. Here we read in part, “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.”

        In my view this speaks to revenge not defense. Jesus was trying to explain the old way of thinking was no longer valid. If your enemy does something to you, it was common to pay him back in kind. Defending oneself or the innocent is not a pay back, it is a survival response.

        Next, you write “Of additional relevance is a text from Isaiah in which we find that our savior was, ‘…oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth” (Isaiah 53:7). This language is also echoed in Peter’s similar statements (1 Peter 2:22-23). Jesus himself lives out the very calling that he demands of his disciples. To pick up our cross and follow him means that we reject our right to self-defense when we are being persecuted in the spiritual kingdom.

        Christ’s purpose was to be the sacrifice for my sin. He was the perfect Lamb necessary for my redemption. He was born to die, and Isaiah prophesied how he would die. Peter’s death was also prophesied by Jesus. I would suggest that Christ knew why he was here, and he accepted the will of His Father. You make a leap I am not willing to make when you say Jesus demands we reject our right to self defense when we are being persecuted. I do not believe he created me or anyone to be oppressed in this world, but it happens because the world is evil.

        You point out 2000 years of church history. I am not denying that some were/are called to martyrdom. However, from a practical view, many martyrs died at the hand of the opposing Church and the government in power. If the king was Catholic, and your view differed from his, and you refused to change your mind, there was a chance you would die. Same thing from the Church of England. The Catholic Church was closely tied to the rulers, often establishing the family line as the royal family blood line from a divine decree. One troubling detail about monarchs was they denied the citizenry the right to arm themselves for fear of revolution or rebellion. The powers killed people who threatened their power.

        As you know, our forefathers in the U.S. secured a Bill of Rights, to list rights secured against governmental intrusion because they wanted to avoid the problems of Europe. How many martyrs would have fought back if they actually believed they had a chance of survival (fighting against both the Church and the King). If you accept that God created us with a strong desire to survive, I would argue many may have resisted or formed into groups to stop governmental action, but they had no means to resist. We will not know this fact within our realm of the physical.

        So, this is how I think. It is one small point on a continuum of belief about this topic. Many church security teams do not have armed people, and my recommendation to churches is to prayerfully consider this topic in light of the actual threat they may face, and how God leads them. What I am about to say is not in jest or meant to be demeaning at all. My concern for you is you are a conflicted CCW permit holder, but admire that you want to do the right thing before God. Carrying a weapon and having a having doubts will lead to hesitation. I would hate to see you or your family hurt due to a moment of hesitation in attempting to determine why someone is trying to harm you. This would be a preventable injustice. I would recommend you not carry a weapon at all until you sort the issues out.

        I have not had time to read your other articles, but will say I intend to do so. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

  8. Glen’s view and comments show a concern and consideration for the different instances of self defense that I concur with, but Garrett concerns me a lot.

    That he feels there is no reason to have a firearm is fine and his opinion, but his view that there should be no Security Teams is not one I can understand and there are to many instances where these teams, which I prefer to call Safety Teams for some, have prevented problems and saved some from death or injury.

    And to say we can just “trust God to be in charge” of a burglar or crime is way off from the Bible and faith beliefs that I am familiar with, which talk about “free will” and a need to be personally accountable and responsible.

    Jesus calls all to come unto Himself and while redemption and salvation are open and free to all who hear the Word, each must accept and act to accept in order to believe and be saved. It takes personal responsibility, not just trusting God to provide, that is one of the reasons He gives us free will.

    Maybe Garrett or others can explain why a Safety and/or Security Team is bad and not needed and that we can just trust God or Jesus to save us from harm?

    1. Ryan M

      Leo,

      Please tell me some verses about free will. I can’t seem to find the term anywhere in the Bible. ; ) And yes, I’m quite serious.

      -Ryan

  9. s

    Ryan: I think your conclusion is the stupidest thing I’ve ever read.

  10. Gary

    I don’t have time to start pulling Bible verses, but the following are my thoughts:
    First, I must state that the whole “two kingdoms” view is very flawed and totally inconsistent with Biblical teaching, in my opinion. There is One God, One Salvation, and God is the God of everything, which includes the here and the now. There is no inconsistency in the behavior required of us between the civil (or secular) world and the spiritual world. Dallas Willard’s book “The Divine Conspiracy” illustrates these points very well.
    Second: Christianity does not demand pacificism. The “turn the other cheek” command is grossly misused. A slap in the face in public was a gross insult, as it is today. We were told not to return insult for insult, tit for tat, but absorb the insult and not to escalate the situation. Christ does not say we have to take a beat down, or allow ourselves to be killed. We are prohibited from seeking revenge; however, which is one of the principle points of the situation considered by Christ. In fact, remember Christ, in speaking of coming persecution and hard times, asked the Twelve if they were armed. The produced two swords, and he said “It is enough.”
    Third: Being persecuted does not mean we have to do nothing. Persecution in the time of the early Christians, often as it is around the world today, was undertaken by the governing authorities, so there literally was nothing that could be done about it. We are to pray for our persecutors, but we are entitled to pray that the persecution ends. We are entitled to take action to end the persecution if it is unlawful. The wife can do nothing about the beatings so long as the husband claims it is because of her faith? Of how about an honor killing? No, she is entitled to a restraining order, to file criminal charges, and to shoot the man if she fears for her life.
    Fourth: The Temple had a very large guard. The guards were equipped with the latest and greatest equipment of the time. They also had very ornate shield, spears, etc. that David had made for them. Were they just window dressing? No. In fact, a king of Judea was installed by the High Priest under their force of arms and protection.
    Fifth: The Jews of the Old Testament were frequently attacked and killed simply because of who they were. (Not much seems to have changed in that regard.) Remember Nehemiah and the rebuilding of the walls? Each worker had a sword in one hand as he worked. Was that all a bluff? Those outside the wall wanting to attack were very real. The Jews were always entitled to defend themselves.
    Sixth: There will soon be no Christians if the blogger’s position was valid. Open season has been declared on Christians so long as one yells “Allah Akbar” or “Death to Christians.” No one would be entitled to defend himself in that circumstance according to the writer. Trust me there are many followers of Allah, secular humanists, communists, and others who would love to take the blogger up on his offer.
    Seventh: Does the blogger’s position mean that no church member would be justified in calling the police in order to stop the active shooter so long as he is “persecuting” Christians? (One must assume the interview regarding the shooter’s intent has already been conducted.) Wouldn’t that be a sin?
    Eighth: The whole blog smacks of the thought process of an ivory tower professor or an appellate judge who has no connection with how things work in the real world. It is clear that the writer has never been involved in the type of violent encounter that he discusses, since the average encounter is over in seconds, and even active shooters average less than 5 to 8 minutes. When, where, and how will all this analysis take place?
    Ninth: The blog smacks of the legalism that both Christ and Paul spoke so strongly against. I will not take my firearm to church on the chance that I might sin when I shoot an active shooter who might be there to persecute me and not be merely after the money or venting his psychotic rage on the nearest large group of people. Talk about splitting hairs! It is better to die than in error than live in error, I guess. Christ came to free us from this gnat’s hair splitting. He is present here and now, we are to be in the world and to let our behavior model how wonderful the world would be if we are all Christians. (Read Romans, both Corinthians, Galatians, etc.)
    Tenth: Christ was not a sissy. Christ was the Lion of Judea. He was a warrior. He went into the Temple and he kicked butt, throwing over tables, beating those who were defiling His House, and taking on the establishment of the church was a great deal of bluntness, courage, and power. Do you really think that if on the road to Jerusalem that an assassin had jumped out and yelled “Death to you, heretic” and ran at Him with a sword, Jesus would have just stood there and said “Oh, he is persecuting me for my beliefs, I must let him kill me”? Of course not! He and his gang would have taken the guy down. Christ had a mission to fulfill, and this would have destroyed the mission.
    Eleventh: God created me. There are three ways I may be “legally” killed: 1. God Himself chooses to do it. 2. The government for a justifiable Biblical reason (murder, for instance), following due process. 3. War. Other than these three, I am entitled to defend myself and others from a deadly attack because no one has the right to take that life from me. This rule was set out in Leviticus, was the law of Jesus’ time, and continues to be the law in most places today.
    Christ did not come to bind us with more legalistic rules than were already present, he came to set us free of them, to give us practical tools for living in a real world; rules that apply whether we are in church, at work, or on vacation. There is no double standard. You may act to save your own life or you may not. The right of self-defense is written into law in the Old Testament, was approved by Jesus with regard the Twelve in coming persecution, and continues to be the case today. My life is a gift of God and no man has the right to take it from me, no matter his motives.

    1. Ryan M

      Gary,

      Not really sure where to start with your points. Let me go point by point.

      Point One: Two-kingdoms is flawed: I’m sorry Gary but you clearly have not read much about two-kingdoms or if you have, you have completely misunderstood the position. Two-kingdoms does acknowledge that there is one God who is presently God overall. Just curious, and I don’t mean this in demeaning fashion but how much have you read on two-kingdoms? Additionally, there is not much to say if you disagree with two-kingdoms because my position is derived from this framework. So ultimately this debate should center on the legitimacy of two-kingdoms social theory. It’s not surprising that we disagree on this issue if you don’t like two-kingdoms. However the rest of the debate is meaningless if we can’t agree on foundational issues.

      Point Two: Christianity is not pacifist: I never said Christianity was pacifist. I don’t know where you got that. Did I not talk of a mixed ruling in my opening? You sound like someone very passionate about the issue and did not give me a fair reading.

      Point Three: Pursue legal means to stop persecution: Again, where did I suggest it was unacceptable to pursue legal proceeding to stop persecution. Or where did I ever say that you could not pray that persecution ceases? I think you are equating my position with typical pacifism brother, another sign that you did not account for my actual position. In the heat of the moment when life is being threatened you can either flee or die in the beauty of martyrdom (Revelation 6). A willingness to die in the face of a persecutor shows that our hope beyond the grave is real. It shows that One greater stands by to judge the situation. It shows that while life is precious, it is not ultimate. I don’t cling to my life in this world like it is all that there is for me. I relinquish it and lay it down willingly. The curse is reversed and I no longer need to fear death because of Christ’s work on the cross.

      Point Four and Five: Old Testament Guard and arms: Again, if we disagree on the two-kingdoms issue, we are bound to disagree on this point. I don’t find it at all valid because Israel was a theocratic state, a geo-political entity. The same cannot be said for the church. If you fail to make this distinction, you end up with all sorts of error.

      Point Six: Christians would cease to exist under my position: This is not any sort of reasonable or logical argument to the issue at hand and thus irrelevant to the situation. Further, are you suggesting that God would be incapable of keeping his church if my position were kept? Do you think the theological positions of men determine the church’s ability to last through the ages or the providence of God? You point seems to suggest the former.

      Point Seven: Can’t call police to stop persecution: Again, where have I suggested this? The key to my argument is that Christians are not the aggressors. Clearly, the apostle Paul did something similar to what you are suggesting Acts. But he certainly did not start physically fighting himself.

      Point Eight: I am in an ivory tower: Though I do find the idea of living an ivory tower quite amusing, I can assure you that I do live amidst sheetrock. It is a logical fallacy to say that because I have not been in a violent encounter that my position is invalid. Have you ever had a child? Do you have a position on abortion? That type of reasoning is beyond ridiculous. Additionally, I acknowledged applicational difficulties. I agree that this is often difficult to work out practically. Would love to have a discussion there but it is of no use if you don’t agree with my initial position. I did leave the door open to applicational difficulties in my last sentence, did I not?

      Point Nine: I am a legalist: I have nothing to say to such a petty accusation.

      Point Ten: “Jesus’ gang would have taken the guy down”: Apparently you have not read John 18:1-10. His gang really took those bad Jews down. : ) Oh wait, Jesus did exactly what you said he wouldn’t do… he told Peter to put the weapons away.

      Point Eleven: There are only three ways you can die: See below.

      Additional Considerations:

      Your comment Gary, sounds very much like someone desperately clinging to his life. Is life valuable yes? Is life in this world ultimate? No. Yes your life is a gift from God brother but I would encourage you to think about how Cross changes our perspective on death. It is not ultimate. It is not the final say. And you are right to say that no one has “the right” to take it from you. No one should take it from you. However, as a Christian, I must recognize that one might very well take it from me for my beliefs. Additionally, the Christian path to discipleship must recognize that we are called to pick up our cross which, is the highest symbol of unjust death and follow Jesus.

      The most disappointing part of your response if you have chosen to skirt talking about the actual Bible. You talk about images and concepts but you never directly deal with biblical texts. Please explain to me how you understand some of the texts that I mention in the article. Also, please explain your justification for your position from either scripture or the things of nature. I am interested in how you account for the texts above, among others, in your reasoning on this position.

      Finally, all of church history stands in witness against you on your position. Two millenia of Christians have stood decisively against using physical force to resist attackers. Please do tell me the great heroes of the faith are completely delusional on this matter. Maybe check out Foxes Book of Martyrs. Would be curious to hear what you think of these sissy’s.

  11. Chad

    Great article, Ryan. I greatly appreciate the distinctions and how Scripture applies to attacks that are spiritual or attacks that are directly connected to spiritual activities. I would suggest that attacks (ie thefts, kidnappings) at churches are not necessarily because those gathering are Christ followers but rather unsuspecting easy victims. Any thoughts on those circumstances? or do you not see a distinction?

    1. Ryan M

      Chad,

      Hey brother! You bring out a great point! It is one that I have thought through but not come to definitive conclusion on. In the lonely western world you are right to point out that sometimes people attack churches just because it is a large gathering of vulnerable people. I’m not quite sure how to address this practical difficulty. It is a unique western problem to be sure. In most countries throughout history, attacks on a church were usually because people did not like Christians. The same can’t be said in our society.

      I have an initial leaning and maybe when all the commentary dies down, I will come back to address it. But I fear my comments on this will detract on this issue during the initial stages of discussion. Do you have an opinion? Any thoughts or ideas?

      Though I have an initial leaning, I am very open to being persuaded otherwise.

      -Ryan

    2. Ryan M

      Chad,

      Finally got around to answering your question. See my response to Caleb below. Again, I could be swayed here, but this is where I am at as of right now.

      -Ryan

  12. I really struggle with this type of thinking. It’s ok to own and carry a gun, but not okay to use it (unless you know for sure that the person is not attacking you because of your faith)? At that point, why defend yourself at all – simply accept your martyrdom? I don’t even see where your view would allow a follower of Christ to serve as a soldier or police officer, except for your “two kingdom” duality. If I can’t defend myself, or others, unless the attacker is guaranteed to not be attacking because of the victim’s faith, how can working for the government absolve me of that “sin”?

    I come down to a couple major points. First, the line from Christ about “turning the other cheek” (Matthew 5:38-40) seems to specifically address insults, not attacks. The followup about the lawsuit (v. 40) seems to reinforce this.

    Now consider Luke 22:33-52. As Jesus was letting the the disciples know that He was going to be killed, He was getting ready to go pray on the mount of olives. He then turned to the disciples and reaffirmed that they were taken care of when they went out with nothing. He then told his disciples to gather their money, gather their clothes, and if they didn’t have a sword (that generation’s handgun), to go buy one. They only came up with 2 swords (out of 11 people – that’s almost 20% of his followers being ARMED). We all know the story of the prayer where the disciples fell asleep, and then He was arrested, and a disciple cut off a servant’s ear. The admonition delivered there was not against the overall use of the sword (He TOLD them to be armed), it was because He KNEW he was supposed to be taken to fulfill His entire purpose for coming to Earth.

    When I carry a firearm, I carry it to defend myself and my family form those who would harm us. I choose to defend myself, because I can best serve and help my family while I am there. I defend my family because I choose to defend innocence – which I would have a hard time finding that against Christ’s teachings.

    I lead the Safety Team at my church, and part of the team (including myself) is armed. I believe a Safety Team is valid for several reasons. First, safety encompasses fire and weather safety, assistance, and greeting those who attend services and events. Yes, “security” is part of our mission. That security covers several very important, and I believe biblical, areas. First, Jesus had a special concern for children. A large part of our mission is to act as both a deterrent and reactive assistance to make sure the kids are safe and secure. our other concern is for the “innocent” adults – Christians and non-Christians alike, who are attending services. Whether this is simply calming any heated discussions or arguments, or reacting to violence. Not only are we the first line of defense, we are also designed as the first to contact the authorities.

    One of the things that I believe is missed in the article is simply the fact that, no matter how badly we want it to be, not everyone attending a church service or activity is a Christian. How Christian is it to leave them to their own devices should someone try to do something to them or their kids? Those who are attending church are there to encounter God. My position is that it is very biblical to do as much as we can to provide them a safe place to do so.

    If/when the government or the anti-Christ decides to openly persecute followers or Christ simply because we follow Christ, I will choose differently. Until then, I believe that I am called to help provide a safe place for folks to encounter God. And I’m not ashamed of that.

    Bryan

    1. Ryan M

      Bryan,

      I recently realized that I had some comments on here that I have yet to reply to. First, let me thank you for reading our blog. We really appreciate it. More then that, thank you for your comment. I think it was perhaps the most well thought out of all the comments received. Some comments:

      1. You argued that Matthew 5:38-40 is about insults. I am curious as to how you arrive at this conclusion. There are numerous commentators who do take this route. There are also numerous commentators who do not. I think two things can be said here. While this type of “slap” may have been considered an insult in Jesus day, this insult has an aggressive physical action directed toward another human being. Can it reasonably be expected that someone gets whacked in the face and merely equates it with a verbal insult? Unlikely. A believe a better reading of the text understands the perspectives brought up about insults but also sees a real “physical” issue here that can’t be ignored. Jesus four examples here seem to all be dealing with doing what is unnatural and amongst that which is unnatural is fighting back against those who physically attack us or insult us. Additionally, Jesus does not tell his disciples to walk away. But he actually tells them to take another blow.

      2. I’m having a hard time following you on Luke 22:33-52. You say Jesus tells the disciples to be armed but then tells them not to attack the soldier because he had to fulfill his mission. Did he not know about his mission before he told them to be armed? It makes no sense to tell them to brings swords at all if he is going to tell them not to use them because he is on his mission to go to the Cross. Further, the best reading of Luke 22:35-38 seems to be that the disciples had it totally wrong. When Jesus says, “It is enough,” in verse 38, he means, “Stop being ridiculous. Again, you do not understand what the kingdom is about.” This matches up with the disciples persistent confusion and lack of ability to perceive certain truths of the kingdom. This is further manifested where Jesus prays on the mount of olives and the disciples fall asleep. Further, it makes for a more consistent reading of the text when we see Jesus condemning the use of the sword in verse 51.

      One final point. With regard to non-believers in the audience: this is a unique western problem but a problem nonetheless. I don’t say this to degrade wester culture but it every culture presents its unique challenges and this is one that is distinct to western society. The reason I say this is because in many societies around the world, people do not show up to church unless they are quite serious about God. Few, if any, non-believers. Few, if any, nominal Christians. This does pose a unique practical difficulty. I wish I could say I had a great answer here but I know it is something I am still sorting through. I could probably elaborate some different lines of reasoning here but I’m not sure I am settled enough on the matter to contribute anything of value here so I will refrain.

      Again, thanks for the comments.

      -Ryan

  13. I guess I don’t have the time Ryan does, nor the same views or beliefs, but Gary did a good job of trying to clarify earlier comments, taking a lot of his time I am sure, and yet Ryan can come up with more unusual views and ideas.

    As to if a burglar is after something that the church may have or just what ever they can steal, does it make a difference? And since when is all crime only in the “western world” and not all over the world in most places today?

    If we are only to trust in God and not worry about protecting ourselves and our property, as Ryan seems to believe and I assume practice, does he have insurance policies for various risks of loss, such as fire, burglary, death?

    The Bible refers to the Good Shepherd, whose role and duty was to provide for, look over and protect the sheep entrusted to him, and I believe the pastor or minister has the same sort of role for those in his membership. The Bible also refers to being a good steward of what is provided us for His return, and there again it would seem the pastor and church should be good stewards of that which has been provided or guided to them to care for.

    Some want to and can turn scripture to fit almost any thought that they or others can come up with but that may not be correct or what He would want.

    1. Ryan M

      Leo,

      I would like to comment on a few things that you said. I do appreciate your comments. And yet I also find some of your comments unhelpful for the sake of this discussion.

      You call my views of “strange” and “unusual.” However, you have not been able to supply ample biblical justification for your views. So if lack of biblicality is the judge of strangeness, I suppose that the tables are turned.

      Additionally, where did I say that crime was a problem in the western world. I said the cultural setting of the western world in which crime takes place creates a unique dilemma. That is because America, as a free country (though seemingly less and less with each passing day unfortunately) with religious freedom has situations in which it is hard to tell why someone is attacking a church. In a society where churches are persecuted, there is virtually no question as to why an armed persecutor would be there, thus eliminating the practical tension of figuring out why the perp is there.

      Next, if you assume that i don’t believe in insurance, you assume incorrectly. I have never said that you should look at all of life and say, “Well I’m just gonna trust God and whatever happens, happens.” Human beings are responsible. I am not saying they have free will but we are responsible for our actions. You may take appropriate BIBLICAL measures to help ward off unfortunate situations. However, using physical force to defend your life in the face of a persecutor is not a BIBLICAL option. It’s all about whether the tactic chosen is biblical. Nothing unbiblical about insurance. Something unbiblical about force against a persecutor.

      Finally, you accuse me of twisting scripture. Touche. These accusations never lead anywhere Leo. What if I said you were the one twisting scripture? Then we would both be pointing the finger at each other accusing one another of twisting scripture and the conversation would effectively end because there is nothing left to say at that point. The purpose of a discussion is to discuss/argue what the bible actually says so we all come to a better understanding of the truth. I think it is rather unfortunate that you have chosen to frame the issue in this way, especially, without seemingly, realizing that I could just as easily say the same thing about your position.

  14. Dan

    Many of you have made great points in your thoughts. I have been working in the field of public figure protection for nearly 25 years. Some assignments I am armed and others I am not. I direct the safety response teams (security & safety) for two churches and I don’t allow individuals on the team to carry a weapon unless they have undergone specific training. I don’t understand why anyone would stand by and let harm come to anyone if they are capable of stopping it. God gave me gifts and talents along with compassion and judgement to protect people. I also believe God put me in the position and role that I serve him through the church. Just as shepherds protected their flocks (with deadly force when required) so do police officers, our military, etc. Many of these men and women are Christians and are called (gifted by God) to protect others. If an active shooter was to enter your church and begin shooting innocent people – wouldn’t you call 911? Would you ask for the responding officers to come unarmed or check their weapons at the door? or would you assume that it must be God’s will and wait your turn to be shot?

    I do carry a firearm while at church, along with a leather-man tool, a flashlight, pepper spray, handcuffs, first-aid gloves, a radio, notepad and pen, and an emergency contact card(all concealed). I believe in being prepared, continuously training and planning for the unknown AND most importantly, our team gets together before each service and prays that we don’t have to use any of our equipment that day. Anyone who has not prepared a plan for unknown will certainly not know what to do when the time comes. I am not proposing that a firearm is the “end-all” answer, in fact even if the situation arose inside the sanctuary – who in their right mind would shoot into a crowd hoping to hit the right person. I am saying if you don’t see the need for a security/safety team at your church and you don’t prepare a plan of action for what could happen, or you choose to believe that God will take care of it – you could find yourself in quite a predicament and a victim yourself.

    Just my humble thoughts, no disrespect to anyone’s thoughts or beliefs.

    Regards,
    Dan

    1. Ryan M

      Dan,

      I appreciate you sharing your perspective. Thanks for giving us some of your background.

      In terms of whether I would call 911 when someone was in the building. I very well might do that. Absolutely. The key is that, the Christians are not the one’s who would be raising up arms in their own defense. I liken this to an Acts 22 type response where Paul uses his rights granted by the civil magistrate in order to protect himself. Again, there are options for Christians facing persecution but physically fighting back an aggressor who is there to persecute the church is not one of them.

      Thanks for your comment and input.

  15. The discussion this post has sparked is exactly what I had in mind when I talked about continuing the discussion from our “Council” meetings at Biola! I’m really encouraged when I see the thoughtful arguments put forth by some of our readers. Even the ones that are less charitable are at least thoroughly articulated. And Ryan, my hat goes off to you for the time and energy you’ve put into continuing the dialogue that’s gone on here.

    I’m sorry to say it took me this long to read your post, but I was intimidated by the number and length of comments here and wanted to make sure I had enough time to read through everything. Now that I have, I have a question. It’s the same one put forth by Glen, Dan, and, I think, others: How are we supposed to be able to determine whether an attacker’s motives place the situation in the realm of the civil kingdom or the spiritual kingdom? I’m not sure you’ve given this a clear and direct response (or maybe I missed it?).

    Beyond that, I would argue that the two kingdoms have a bit of overlap. If an attacker came into the church, put a gun to your head and shot you because he hates Christians, I would commend you (posthumously) for suffering persecution for Christ’s sake. But if he instead put the gun to your (hypothetical) daughter’s head and was preparing to shoot her for the same reason, would you intervene to save her? Does not your right and duty to protect your family in the civil kingdom spill over into this situation?

    In my opinion, even accepting a two-kingdoms perspective, there seem to be too many situations in which a civil-kingdom-related attack could occur to completely throw out the idea of a church security team. As others have pointed out, not every attack on church grounds is an attack against Christianity. (The potential kidnapping of children would be another example.)

    I’d love to hear your thoughts on these issues. Thanks again for taking the time to respond to the lengthy comments your readers have left!

    1. Ryan M

      Caleb,

      Great question. Unquestionably a practical tension. I will tell you where I stand now, although I can certainly be swayed because the practical issues on this are quite complex and messy.

      For the time being, I would say that when the visible/local church is gathered, she should entirely refrain against defense. In other words, they should not care to find out the attackers intentions. They should assume that they are there for persecution.

      However, even if they are not there for this reason, when the church is gathered, her primary responsibility is to live out the gospel. When the church is gathered there is a mystical even that is occurring and thus any attacks against her people during this time should fall under the auspices of persecution. Thus I would ultimately say we should not have church security teams and then allow them to make the best judgment about why the perpetrator is there. We should simply lay down our weapons when the church is gathered.

      I think this question would be more difficult when talking about a robber breaking into a home because then we are outside of the unique and special spiritual union that occurs with the visible gathered church. Not sure what I would say on that one. Need more time to think.

      Good question. Any other thoughts?

      -Ryan

  16. […] the beginning of the year Ryan’s article on guns and church security (“Church Security Teams? Verdict: Unbiblical“) stirred a bunch of discussion around the blogosphere and gave me a lot to think about: […]

  17. Heather

    We will see how you feel if someone comes into your church and starts shooting up the place you will be glad the security team is there.

  18. Matt

    Wow, a great example of a well-referenced and utterly flawed position. Ryan, I am glad you are not associated with my church body. Though, I hope you would be of a different mind because we have been attacked twice. Both instances required physical intervention to protect the pastor and an elder. Another church I am associated with has had men of Middle Eastern-descent — who were arrested by the FBI later that week — case the facilities in preparation for a series of soft-target terror attacks. Those arrests were made in part because of the church security team’s witness statements. Satan will attack via whatever means available those who seek the Lord. Spiritual agents act through the physical work to inflict all kinds of illness, discontent and fear in order to separate us from God. It comes from all directions. If your church is making a dent against Satan, he’ll come after you strong. The men of the church have a responsibility to care for and protect the flock. The church body can include a fist and employ violence when justified. No? Christ did. See Matthew 21:12, Mark 11:15 and Luke 19:45.

  19. Tony

    Ryan, with all due respect, for one who has accused other responders of skipping over verses or not answering them, you are guilty of the same. You have yet to answer the apparent quandary of your points (and verses) in comparison to those of Nehemiah. As well, I did not see you respond to Luke 22:36. Are you saying that to make a point, Jesus would tell his disciples to do something that is against His kingdom’s nature? It also appears that you have laid claim to some special knowledge that the martyrs of Revelations 6 were killed while offering no resistance. A martyr is one who is killed because of their belief – not one who was killed such without resistance. I am afraid sir, that it appears that you also are avoiding points that would question your stand on church security of any type being unbiblical. I would welcome your response to these biblical points.

  20. […] two years ago I wrote a blog post entitled, Church Security Teams? Verdict: Unbiblical, that seemed to be quite popular. Although, if I had my druthers it would have been popular because […]

  21. […] two years ago I wrote a blog post entitled, Church Security Teams? Verdict: Unbiblical, that seemed to be quite popular. Although, if I had my druthers it would have been popular because […]

  22. Robert

    If fighting back is against Gods will then why do humans possess a will to survive, survival instincts. A mother protecting her child. I completely and respectfully disagree with your assessment. no where in the bible does it require pacifism. Several examples in the bible, about protecting the door while the savior was present. I also believe that living one life in church and one life out of church is quite a bit hypocritical. I read that you are two different people depending on who you are around. Can you provide biblical references to the two domain theory you speak of. I feel your argument is flawed and unbiblical

  23. ThomS

    I wonder if he’ll ever respond to the above comments that clearly call him out; and reference the Bible as he so demanded of all the earlier responders.

  24. […] ran across an interesting article on a blog called The Two Cities where the author makes an interesting argument.  He states a Christian has biblical clearance to […]

  25. John

    I recently coming back from 13 years overseas in a very dangerous place. Guess what? We had no guards or armed people at out church. The threat was there but the thought of killing someone in our church could not be met with Peace. Sorry but what it is is a bunch of wanna be tough guys that are not tough at all. They make a threat exist where it does not in order to let them feel like they are macho and needed to “save” the people who are too weak to save themselves. People in the church are self implied hero’s who do God’s work everyday with the risk of death. Sorry but I know people and I myself have done it. I have lost people close to me and too many friends. In America you are not needing body guards to go to church or be a pastor. You can thank people who serve everyday overseas to keep you that way. Stop playing cowboys and indians, grow up and leave your gun’s at home son. There are places in this world you can go and be the tough guy. You will not last long I can tell you with that attitude. SO I went to church recently back and I see two guys with wires out their ears and side arms scanning the congregation from the front pews. Our protectors since the tragedy in Texas…

    I am sorry people but this is wrong. It made me feel very uncomfortable and do you think people are going to go forward and accept the Prince of Peace as their personal savior and pass a guy armed with a 9mm scanning the crowd? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? Leave it all out in the parking lot where as anyone with half the knowledge I have will tell you is the place for it.

    I am rated 80% for PTSD from my years of service and go to church to be at peace. I can not get that when pistol packing adrenaline junkies are in front of me scanning the crowd. I have paid a price, been around death too much. I will be finding a nice small little church who put’s their faith in God not Smith and Wesson.

  26. Pete

    I know I’m late to the conversation, but I just came across your post. You asked for biblical references as to why one should or should not be armed to protect the flock while in a church building. I’ll give you two, both involving the Son of God.

    First, in Luke 22:36, Jesus is speaking with his disciples (if this isn’t your definition of an example of the spiritual realm of believers then I don’t know what would be), and he commands them that if they have a cloak to sell it to bear arms (swords). Note, that the sword 2000 years ago would be the equivalent of carrying a firearm today. It was the weapon to carry to protect yourself.

    Also, in John 2 in the account of the money changers in the temple, Jesus Himself took the time to braid a scourge of small cords (a whip or cat of nine tails). This is not a quick thing to do. The money changers would have had ample time to see what he was about to do and leave. Then with premeditation (recall he took the time to fashion a weapon first) He, with scourge in his hand, drove the money changers out of the temple.

    So I’m left with this, if the Son of God, the omniscient and all powerful, by His example, fashioned a weapon for use in securing the temple of God, who are we to say we should not bear arms to protect ourselves and those around us (believer or non-believer) in the church.

    You also make the premise of two realms and that those that go to church are of the spiritual realm and gave the idea that we shouldn’t be armed in the spiritual realm. That would then preclude that you are well aware of each person’s heart that attends your church. Are you completely aware that everyone in your church has turned their life over to Jesus? I know for a fact there are those that struggle with their faith. It is not up to me to know their heart (that is God’s job thankfully), but to love and and encourage them. I am called to protect. I will protect, just as my Lord and Savior asked his disciples to bear arms and just as my Lord and Savior took up arms Himself. Remember, the church is just a building, the Church is the community of believers. All that go to church are not necessary part of the Church.

    I hope my response to you helps with understanding church security as I have come to understand it. Just as the disciples only bought two swords, I do not believe that all people under His kingdom are called to arm themselves. God will call those to be protectors as He calls those to be teachers, pastors, counselors, etc.

    May God keep you and bless you.

  27. Troy Schielein

    You are definitely out of touch with reality and the need for Godly Warriors…

    We will continue to train those teams to deliver the weak and the needy from the hand of the wicked and any Pastor that would agree with you, I would tell people to run from that Church – they definitely aren’t hearing from the Holy Spirit.

    You are opening the doors for innocent lives to be taken by the increasing evil of this world.

  28. Tripp Fields

    The argument that church security teams are umbilical-the verdict: Not only itself umbilical but reckless and completely dangerous.

    Saying that self defense should never be allowed if the threat to yourself or your fellow believers is motivated by targeting you because you are believers or because you are inside a church building shows not only a serious misunderstanding of biblical teaching but also a reckless disregard for safety and life all for the sake of virtue signaling about the terrible reality of violence and not wanting it to intersect with the Christian faith or the body of Christ. Milano then peppers it with our-of-context Scripture quotes to sanction it.

    Whether or not the safety or lives of yourself or your fellow believers is worth protecting even with deadly force has nothing to do with Paul’s passage in Romans about human government or the distinction between the earthly or heavenly kingdom that Jesus made to Pilate. It has to do with the value of human life which is made in God’s image and does not cease to be simply because a violent threat has a certain motivation namely targeting the victim because of their faith. The passage in Romans about human government has to do with obligations owed to your fellow brethren and your neighbor that Paul commands to be respected to include your duty to obey the government authority since it is established by God. It has nothing to do about when violent force should be used. Nor will it do to cite Jesus’s command about turning the other cheek since this was a command against being vengeful towards others not a command to not defend oneself or others. Milano’s claim that if a violent threat is attacking you or another believer for their faith or if they are attacking someone inside a church building that this is attacking them in the so called “heavenly kingdom”and therefore one should not intervene whereas if someone is attacking someone for another motive or outside a church building is attacking them in the so called “earthly kingdom” and therefore one should intervene shows a serious misunderstanding of what Jesus was saying to Pilate when Pilate was interrogating him about whether he was claiming to be a king. Pilate was actually trying to find out from Jesus whether or not he had claimed to be ruling king of the Jews or not which the Jewish religious leaders were charging him with to Pilate. The Palestinian Jews at the time were Roman subjects and claiming to be their king would be defying Caesars’ authority by being in direct competition with the emperor of Rome which Roman law considered an act of treason. Jesus responded by telling Pilate that if he were a king in that sense he would have not gotten arrested by the Jews because like all civil kings including the Roman emperor he would have an army and an armed guard who would have protected him. But instead his kingdom was a spiritual one of another place. As Christians living in this life we are living in this world until God calls us home at death. This is why we are in the world but not of the world. We don’t somehow get instantly transported to the heavenly world when we get violently attacked and the attacker is targeting us for our faith and then somehow get transported back to earth if the attack ceases or we get attacked for a different reason. When a mass shooter for instance targets a church that attack is happening on earth not in heaven. Or when a Christian gets mugged in an alley way that attack is happening on earth not in heaven. Not only that but in the heat of a violent encounter a person including a Christian is not going to be able to pause and ask the assailant “By the way? Are you targeting me because I’m a Christian or do you just want my money or something? I need to know so that I can know whether or not to put my weapon down because you’re attacking me in the heavenly kingdom and not the earthly kingdom.” In fact I hope and pray that no career criminal reads this article and finds out Milano’s address because then they can show up to his house and do God knows what to him and his family because they can then break in and announce that they are targeting him because he is a Christian and Milano would them be obliged to put his gun down and put his hands up and say “Oh well then. You’re attacking me in the heavenly kingdom therefore do whatever you want with me, my wife and my children!” God forbid.

    This why taking such a view is reckless irresponsible and dangerous.

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